LFC - Blame Game Decisions - Part Three (Forums, Spirit of Shankly and Fans)

It could be time to sell Torres and Gerrard and rebuild our squad with the proceeds.

Ryan Babel should be given a run of at least 10 games to build his confidence.

We must drop Kuyt because he is ineffective and useless.

Martin Kelly did well for a game, move Johnson to right midfield and play Kelly at right back for the rest of the season.

If Aquilani is sat on the bench then he's obviously fully fit, so play him.

and finally....

Get rid of Benitez and bring back Souness!

Internet Forums

How does it look to you. Is that a blueprint for success? Well take the combined 'expertise' from some forum contributors or 'experts' as some would say and this is what you end up with. I guess we're all entitled to our opinions but some, when stacked up like above, just beggar belief.

This is even before we get onto the vile contribution from other 'experts' who seem to be unable to string together a full sentence without the use of f***, sh** or cu**. These types of 'experts' are most dangerous when forum hunting in a pack I have found.

Now, don't get me wrong everyone is quite rightly entitled to their point of view. I have actually only started interacting in forums over the past couple of months. My expectations of what I might find were possibly just a bit too high though. I expected reasoned debate backed with some sort of evidence of logical thinking, interjected from time to time by the odd idiot. What I have found is a bit different, or perhaps the exact opposite in some cases. A lot of people (not all) seem to have a fixed point of view and you can't shift them no matter what evidence you produce. Others have very little to back up their point of view and seem to be working on a hunch or what they were told.

Knowledge is power but a little knowledge is just downright dangerous. This is where I have the biggest problem with forums. None of us contributors have the whole picture. We don't know who's playing well in training, has a slight knock, has full match fitness etc. But yet we take 50 - 75% of the information available and pass absolute judgements on players, managers and the club as a whole. Then when you reduce the knoweldge gap by providing evidence, well if it was on the phone it would be like this...

'Expert': Rafa doesn't bring through players like Wenger, why can't we get Wenger. Rafa is sh** at bringing through players.

Fact Based Expert: Do you realise that he has only recently had full control over the academy set up and here's the evidence? So really it's a bit unfair to level that accusation at him. We need to judge him over the next few years don't we?

'Expert': ... *click*

Fact Based Expert: hello?

I think you all know my views on Rafa if you read part 2 (CLICK HERE for PART 2) of this series. There are contributing factors with a weight of evidence behind them as to why patience is required. On the other side there is.... urm... well bad results. Short term views aren't helping anyone. We are in this for the long haul. Does anyone believe that without our injuries we would be so far behind? Yet people enter forums with a gut feeling or a reaction to a bad result. They seem to have already forgotten how well we did last season. Yet 6 months later we have the worst manager ever and now all his knowledge, that guided us so near last season, dropped out of his head. Now he's rubbish.

But here's the contradiction for every 100 posts in a forum a small percentage are well presented and researched arguments. They make sense and I nod my head and I think yes I agree with that, even if I didn't before, you have persuaded me. It's usually those posts that are followed by "you p*ick you don't know what you're on about' though. So I shake my head and between the nodding and the shaking I start to feel dizzy and slightly nauseous.

So, on the whole, I don't like forums. They're not places to go to talk things over or foster support at times of trouble like now. They're places to go and put forward a point of view without proper research and to generally have a go. The wheels are falling off, quick replace the driver. But that won't help and here is a full list of scientific research to show why the driver won't make any difference to the nuts holding the wheels on....... hello?

Spirit of Shankly

I really like the concept of a supporters union and I admire some of the work which is being conducted by SOS. At first I was concerned that it was a 'closed shop' and that interaction with them would be restricted. This has not been my experience to date. I have communicated with them on several occasions and they have responded with their point of view and encouraged me to attend a meeting. They have been continually open and courteous with me as I emailed question after question.

I do wonder though whether their initial raison d'etre will hamper them in the future. They will not be shaken in their conviction that the owners of the club are bad for it. I applaud the conviction of their belief but I think they could end up the wrong way of a one way alley. They have gone on the record as stating that they will not change their views and that, to me, was a mistake.

We are fast approaching deadlock. The owners of the club cannot be forcibly removed and they are hard nosed businessmen. Demonstrations or any other actions will not bother them while the club continues to improve commercially, which it is doing. They will only take action when they see it hit their wallets. I am unsure if SOS can generate the following it needs to effect this kind of change.

So the general bad feeling created continues and a section of the fan base continues to be unhappy. The danger persists that the corporate image may be tarnished and this could do immense damage to the club. SOS may then find a larger section of fans protesting about their actions.

I also have a genuine concern that within forums more 'hardcore / direct action' splinter groups are being discussed. They may be separate from SOS but they may damage by association, which would be a shame.

I know SOS has a sizeable following and I am one person. I would just ask them to consider the idea of 'peace time' again. We have enough to worry about on the pitch at the moment and is a year really going to make that much of a difference? Strategically I am sure it will be to their benefit, one way or the other.

The Fans

We are respected the world over and I don't believe many clubs have the special bond created between club and fans. We are known for our ability to stand by our club no matter what and we sing you'll never walk alone to re-emphasise the point at any given time.

It worries me though that the special relationship between club and fans is changing. Maybe its just my reaction to our current predicament. I have only really started interacting with the fans and club during this torrid time. Maybe it's down to the new owners or the 'situation' with the new owners. I really don't know but what I do know is that we don't just support 'the team' we support Liverpool Football Club. That means we support the manager, the staff, the players and even the cones used for training. At this moment in time our club needs our support. Not just the team, every level of the club needs our support.

To me that means:

- one huge voice at every game no matter what

- seeing #ynwa trending on twitter during every game

- everyone behind the manager until we're losing like this without clear reasons

- no demonstrations until, at least, we are over our blip

- support for every player whether they are playing good or bad

You see if we do this, if we just concentrate on supporting our club at this moment in time while the chips are down. No one can say that the famous 12th man didn't do his bit!

The Blame Game

There is no one individual to blame for our problems. We have a culmination of factors and errors. We're getting a bit like a soap opera. but don't look for one hook to hang it all on. We win together, we lose together and we stand together always. The blame game is about recognising that multiple factors are causing failure not one.

Some are blaming Rafa, some the owners, some the players, some the fans, some think it's all down to Dirk Kuyt. Add in injuries and poor form and the answer is in there somewhere... spread against all of them, except Dirk Kuyt! Rafa isn't infallible but he is recognised as one of the top managers in the world and he wants to be at Anfield. The owners have made mistakes but the commercial success off the pitch is improving. Some players had bad form but have now improved. Injuries are easing and hopefully the short term problems will be rectified quickly. Longer term I still believe in exactly how things are going now.

I hope the blame game has come to an end with this post, starting at Goodison!

Blame Game Decision - Part Two (Rafael Benitez) - SORRY!

Urm.... well.... ok honestly, I can't be doing with the level of grief associated with writing blog entries about LFC. I had hoped that balanced arguments backed with facts may in some small way make a difference. I was naive.

So I'll give you a quick summary of MY OPINIONS on everything else. They're not right or wrong they are opinions so I won't be publishing any comments on this post.

Rafa Benitez - is the right person to move LFC forward. He has only recently had full control over the youth set up and has brought in a management team, which I imagine is envied across Europe. Given time he will deliver, but we need to be patient. There are reasons why Real Madrid continue to be linked with him - he is one of the best coaches / managers in Europe and we are lucky to have a manager who gives his all to our club.

Spirit of Shankly - I admire the 'other work' they do and continue to believe that the concept is impressive. I do not agree with their original raison d'etre but believe they have the potential to be an influential and positive force for LFC. I can see the concept being replicated by others. The dangers are that when you visit forums I can see more hardcore / direct action orientated 'splinter cells' forming in the future. SoS may find themselves guilty by association. I have engaged with SoS by email etc. on several occasions and found them willing to listen if not be convinced.

Forums - WOW, some of them are just plain ridiculous others are filled with hate and intimidation. Not what I was expecting or hoping for. I am sure there are good forums out there but I haven't found an 'adequately controlled' one yet which allows for positive contributions to debate.

Paul Tomkins (@paul_tomkins) - I like his optimism and he sees things that I don't from a team perspective, but once pointed out I usually agree with him. I am half way through his latest book which is, to mid way through, an excellent eye opening read. He also re-tweeted mysecond blog entry. Thanks Paul.

Liverpool-Kop.com (Jaimie Kanwar) - Jaimie and I don't usually agree on much in relation to team / Rafa etc. I can see where some of the criticism about him comes from and I really am not sure whether he does just push forward ideas to be sensationalist or whether they are just his honest opinions. Either way, as a bi-product, he does get people talking - which is good. He also re-posted two of my blog entries and got them to a wider audience. Thanks Jaimie (I think :-) )

Gareth Roberts (@robbohuyton) - We're on different sides of the argument in relation to H&G but he's listened to my point of view and I his. We've both conceded on some discussions and I wish there were more open minded and coherent fans like him out there. Definitely worth a follow on Twitter! Thanks Robbo!

Right so if you're anti H&G you're not here anyway, if you want to listen to me babble about LFC more.... tough! I will continue to post about business issues if that interests any of you. The local council is my next target.... should they be run like private businesses?

Oh and out of all this my dissertation for my Masters degree will be in relation to LFC and the way it is run. I will have research to conduct and may need some help..... I won't be blogging about it though, but may call on some of you for assistance!

LFC - Blame Game Decisions - Part One (The Owners) [Amended]

Three weeks ago I posted my first blog entry about Liverpool Football Club. The football club I have followed since my first long term memories formed. The majority of my family follow LFC, seemingly because my Uncle used to play for 'us'. My first shirt didn't even have a sponsor on it and Mum always struggled to get it off my back for the wash. These days, on the launch of pretty much every new kit I pick up my son and head to the nearest sports store.

However, I became increasingly frustrated with the blame culture surrounding the club. So I wrote my first LFC related blogpost about 'the blame game' and how everyone was looking for a single individual or group to blame. I didn't agree that any single person or group was to blame in isolation and therefore set out my thoughts. I then slowly got sucked into forums and tweets, particularly in relation to the business side of LFC. Being a company director myself I had a certain amount of empathy for our owners and senior management, but yet the more you hear the more you wonder about no smoke without fire.

So three weeks on and I have interacted in forums, emailed numerous people and tweeted till my fingers went numb. All with varying degrees of success. However, I think I'm at the precipice of making informed decisions, so here goes. [Update: I have now updated this post in light of comments made on the original posting which made me reflect on things and put forward new ideas. All shown in italics]

The Owners

I have been asked what H&G have brought to the club. I believe we have a much better playing squad and significant additions have been made (Mascherano, Torres, Johnson, Aquilani). Now I realise that we have had money in from player sales but I don't believe these players would have been signed pre H&G. They have improved the commercial success of the club significantly with new sponsorship deal etc. Why are all the good things down to Christian Purslow and all the bad H&G? We need to continue improving the commercial revenues to drive profits so we can buy more quality players. But this will take time.

The main areas of concern surrounding the owners appear to be about debts and lies. The consensus of those who are anti H&G seems to be that H&G lied about:

- not putting debts onto the club

- the now famous "shovel in the ground within 60 days" statement

In assessing these 'lies' I wanted to be absolutely clear in my own mind that H&G made statements with an intention to deceive. The actual definition of lie being 'a falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception'. So I find a lie and I can then be clear in my own mind that I should be anti H&G. Well you'd think so wouldn't you? The problem being in this case that there is very little chance of really knowing whether there was an intention to deceive. There are grey areas in relation to the exact quotes, or, feasible reasons for a change of plan within every alleged lie. I also kept coming back to the question of 'why would they lie and what have they gained out of it'?

The debts on the club argument I believe comes about from a very early interview with George Gillett. During the interview he said "We have purchased the club with no debt on the club, so I think in that regard it is different (from the Glazer deal)", it was then a reporter who suggested "Unlike Glazer, who saddled United with borrowings of $1.1 billion, Liverpool's new owners said their offer would leave the club debt-free". These are two completly different statements; only one of which are attributable to the owners. Having reviewed the accounts for Liverpool Football Club it is clear that at one point, following the purchase of the club, the club itself was indeed debt free.

I have found no evidence to suggest that either H or G stated the club would always be debt free. So I am reasonably satisfied, having found no direct quote to substantiate the claim, that they did not lie about this.

Whether they lied or not we currently have a reported £245m of debts within the group of companies. Having conducted my own assessment on our clubs debts in comparison to the other 'top four' clubs I quite conclusively proved that our debts are nowhere near as high as the other top clubs. You have to speculate to accumulate. Everyone wants Liverpool to be successful and this requires a direct synergy between on and off the pitch, both of which at this time require investment. It is also important to note that the bulk of those debts are on the holding company, more about that later.

I moved onto the shovel in the ground in 60 days statement. This was always portrayed to me as something which was a cast iron guaranteed statement from either H or G. Indeed spirit of Shankly include a video of this statement on their website. Again I find no promises or cast iron guarantees. George Gillett stated in February 2007 "The shovel needs to be in the ground within, what,(turning to Rick Parry) the next 60 days or so? (after Parry agrees) and we intend to follow that." My belief is that this is not a promise but a statement of intent. There are two mitigating factors which then took this intention off track.

1. The world credit markets became strangled by the credit crunch. The IMF expects that the world's losses will total $2.8 trillion by the time it is over. These were, indeed are, unprecedented times and possibly the worst financial calamity of modern times. As each month passed from January 2007 the tightening of the credit markets increased to a peak in September 2008. Banks collapsed and the world's governments had to step in to bail out banking institutions and large corporations. During this time America's wealthiest people are expected to have lost a quarter of their wealth. The facts cannot be denied and I find it interesting that, it would appear, some expect a 'protective credit crunch bubble' to have formed around Anfield. It has been noted elsewhere that even Abramovich has lost a considerable amount of wealth during this period, all while his club creeps up to owing him £1bn! Let's see if those loans stay interest free if the hard times hit shall we?
2. It has been suggested that the original plans for the club were not acceptable to H&G and new architects were quickly brought in to re-design the stadium. I have seen comments suggesting that the original plans (of which I have some up on my office wall) were simply not good enough and the plans put in place by Moores and Parry not realistically achievable. Question - why spend millions of pounds on preparation for a new stadium you never intend to build if you are simply here to cash in?

The fans were however quite clearly under the impression that work was imminent on the new stadium in January 2008 after the following statements. Hicks in January 2008 (months after the commonly accepted start date for the credit crunch):

“With the refinancing process now done, club supporters can look forward to the timely commencement of construction work on the new stadium and renew their focus on actions on the pitch."

A month before Rick Parry had told fans:

“The situation in the credit markets has not affected our design, programme, or implementation of building our new stadium. The priority has always been to build a winning team on the pitch and everything else we do is geared towards that."

These quote were provided to me and I verified them. They caused me to re-think my initial posting and I have to confess this update was nearly very different. However, it dawned on me that there was something neither I or others had thought of. Which I believe adds weight to the credit crunch theory.

So lets start a timeline from January 2008, the date of the last comment provided. Hypothesise that everyone's happy and the bank are making the 'right noises' about continued backing after already recently providing £350m of new funding. Then look at the backers in question, RBS and Wachovia. In April 2008 RBS attempted a rights issue to try and raise £12bn as it battled against the credit crunch and asset write downs from ABN Amro. A sure sign of the rot setting in at the bank. By October of the same year the government had to step in and inject £37bn. Then turn your attention to Wachovia. In the second quarter of 2008 the bank lost £8.9bn, in June the CEO was ousted and a new one was in by July. In September the bank lost, in two days, £5bn of deposits and 27% of its stock value. On September 28th the regulators were concerned that the bank didn't have enough short term funds to open the next day. The bank was then bought out by Citigroup in a deal forced upon Wachovia by the US government and regulators.

While the Hicks and Parry statements were made months after the credit crunch started, the credit crunch did not affect the banks who were backing LFC until after the statements. The timing fits in perfectly with having to put the stadium on hold. Within 9 months of Hicks' statement both of the banks had effectively collapsed, the blame for this not resting anywhere near Anfield. So the banks come back this year in the new era of ultra cautiousness and demand a repayment of £60m, which was paid. So now we have to find new ways of funding the stadium, which from what I can see is happening.

I have listened to the recordings on the spirit of Shankly website and yes there is contradictory information given by Gillett, but I assume this was an 'off the hoof' meeting, which was possibly confused by the facts stated (especially in relation to the 60 days comment). Is it possible that George Gillett says that Tom Hicks must have promised the shovel in the ground because neither of them promised it? Is it possible that contradictory dates are given for the credit crunch because there is not a specific day it started (as noted above)? More questions, no answers, no concrete proof.

I'm not getting into the expenses row. The Kop Football holding company is entirely the personal property and liability of H&G, within it lies the asset of Liverpool Football Club. They are entitled, with the confines of the law, to extract whatever money they want from it. You see there's the kicker the debts we are all up in arms about. Well the bulk of them appear to be the personal liabilities of H&G.

For those worrying about the possibilty of Liverpool being the next Leeds. Leeds' turnover (in the run up to it going into administration) was less than half of Liverpool Football Club and the football club posted a £50m loss in 2003. My brief research into what would happen if Kop Holdings became insolvent strongly indicates that the football club would not be severely affected. During my research I found the following quote from law notes "However, no court has yet found subsidiary companies liable for their holding company’s debts." I also came across a news story in relation to Thomas Cook, whose parent company became insolvent. They continued to trade normally and the shares in the company were then sold on by the receivers of the parent company. This is more than likely, in my opinion, to be what would happen to Liverpool Football Club in this scenario.

So the club (to the best of my understanding) has £105m of debts which is up by £60m post H&G. For that £60m the club has the planning permission and 'soft costs' met for the stadium and an improved playing squad. The clubs wage bill jumped up £12m in the last financial year and will no doubt jump up again this financial year, in light of improved contracts and improved player acquisitions. Another matter that seems to often get overlooked is that during the H&G years the 50% stake in LFC TV was bought back from Granada at a cost of c.£15m. when you start looking at all of these 'improvements for the future' with a good spread across players, players' salaries, stadia and commercial improvements it is hard to understand why people feel the debts are being used for anything other than future prosperity.

I have heard concerns about a points deduction following the administration incident at Southampton Football Club. Again I believe this to be an entirely different situation. Southampton Football Club purposefully placed their holding company into administration to avoid the points deduction. The league reported "The holding company is solvent in its own right. It only becomes insolvent when account is taken of the position of Southampton football club and the other group companies." This is clearly not the position that Kop Holdings would find itself in.

I have been asked about the auditors comments at the end of the last financial year when they suggested that Kop Holdings may not be able to continue trading as a going concern.

There are three things to consider with the auditor's notes:

1. Auditors by law have to be ultra cautious. They get sent to prison if they aren't. This is obviously important with companies who are in the media spotlight.

2. They were talking about Kop Holdings and you have to separate the two companies out IMO. Kop Holdings would have been struggling. £42.6m loss and only £10m from its subsidiary available. Loan finance had dried up so an injection of capital was required. Which was provided.

3. Both the owners have recently sold other major assets. Hicks has also said our star players won't be sold. Now two things with that. I have noticed he stopped short of saying no players will be sold and we can't all be up in arms if, say, Mascherano leaves in the summer because he wants to.

So, an intention to lie or deceive? I still cannot find any concrete evidence of it and believe me I have looked. I always come back to the same old question, why lie? What benefit do they get from lying?

To me it makes little sense to plough millions into any company if you are just there to asset strip or cash in on it. I am also satisfied, based on the information collated to date, that the companies are solvent and improving. In the unlikely event of the club 'going under' it would simply be sold on by the banks and I do not believe the league would be likely to deduct points.

So where do I stand? Well as I started to be honest, which is H&G neutral. Mainly because, while I do not believe they have caused significant detrimental damage, they have made mistakes. Their own warring, the media attention and the Klinsmann incident mean that they have to prove they have learnt from past mistakes. They have to earn my trust as a fan. I also remain open to the possibility that while I haven't found evidence of lying, they may have been disingenuous at times. Although again I have found no real evidence of this.

I still strongly believe that the club could open up its communication channels and resolve most of this, if there truly is nothing to hide. However, have I seen evidence of enough harm being done to warrant me being anti H&G and wanting them out of the club? No. I also see improvements being made to the club commercially and I see the club moving forward. Our playing squad is stronger than it was, could it have more depth, well there's never enough depth is there?

I don't want Rafa to be handed an open chequebook and end up in the same position as Chelsea. People often overlook, because of his wealth, that the future of Chelsea Football Club is in the hands of one individual. If he fails believe me Chelsea Football Club will disappear! We have to be run as a profiting, successful and commercially astute business. This means debts and expenses and everything else that comes along with business. It is just the reality of the situation. The bonus - well off the pitch success is generally driven on the pitch so investment in the squad is, within prudent financial limits, assured.

FINAL NOTE: Please feel free to post your point of view. Feel free to disagree with me. But, convince me! Give me something to go on, something concrete. You see I've asked this of many anti H&G fans. Not one has yet delivered me a link or other evidence to validate their assertions. I'm happy to keep an open mind and I'm happy to join and go to demonstrations with spirit of Shankly if I am convinced it is the right course of action. It needs to be warranted and personally at the moment, it isn't.

Coming soon... Part Two - Rafael Benitez and Part Three - Spirit of Shankly, Forums and the Fans

LFC - Time for Peace?

Damn it! I said I wasn't doing another football related post. This isn't an LFC blog and I'm pretty sure I must have other interesting things to write about. But here's how it works. Yesterday I'm driving wondering what my next blog post might be about - politics, business, drugs, celebrity and I can't think of anything. Then today something triggers in my mind and my head goes 'that's a good blog entry' and well... here we are!

I have come across a bit of an enigma. Last week I posted on the site www.liverpool-kop.com about a point of view expressed which was similar to my own first LFC post. I commented and linked to my own story saying I was going to write about LFC's debts.

The site is run by Jaimie Kanwar someone I have never met and our total correspondence comprises of a few emails and tweets. After writing my post Jaimie asked if he could re-post it to his own site. I agreed and managed to get an insight into what it's like to run a site like his. I have had to respond numerous times to criticism, questions etc. and read comments which were not too flattering about my work.

This led me to reviewing more of Jaimie and his other writers' work and I think it would be fair to say that he does not shy away from controversy. On reading some of the responses it was becoming clear to me that he may actually be 'The Stig'. Between some valid points, some rantings and responses you can almost hear Jezza Clarkson "some say he's actually a Manchester United fan, some say he's in it for the advertising money while some would say he's a wannabe editor for the daily sport. We all know him as the Stig!"

There are some who accuse Jaimie of just finding the latest big LFC news and then purposefully putting forward or posting the 'view of the few' to promote a reaction. How true this is I guess only he knows. One thing is sure - with headlines like the following, criticism is always going to be forthcoming:

• Crouch for sale as Rafa's irrational vendetta continues
• Manchester United debacle once again exposes Steven Gerrard's lack of leadership ability
• Why Liverpool cannont and should not sign David Villa
• Rafa suffering from Houllieresque delusion of blandeur

However it is fair to say that there are often positive posts on the site. In the stories I have read an attempt is also made to back up the views with some form of rationalisation, even if it is not always accepted. He does not shy away from 'flip flopping' either and is happy to change his view point at a later date. Does this suggest an open mind or back up the 'sensationalist seeking' point of view?

If he is indeed The Stig then I guess his Richard Brunstrom would be SoS (Spirit of Shankly) who oppose the current ownership of the club. SoS is the Liverpool supporters union which was formed in January 2008. They are opposed to the current ownership of the football club and have the stated aim of holding the owners of the club to account.

Now, I will state again that I am Hicks and Gillett (H&G) neutral. But at the same time I am a realist and the realism of the situation is where SoS' biggest weakness lies in my opinion. They may well have some valid concerns, some of which have been shared amongst the majority of Liverpool fans, but their options and powers are limited. The most valid of concerns is the level of debts leveraged against the club. As per my last post I don't believe we are in as bad a position as painted by the media and I personally am relaxed about the club's finances. However, it has to be accepted that an additional c.£300m of debt is around the clubs neck post H&G. This is big money and concern is therefore understandable.

But the owners are financially accountable to their backers (the banks) and cannot be forcefully deposed by anyone else. So when it comes to the fans well, what can we do? Most of the actions available to us (stop going to the games, stop buying from the club shop, arrange demonstrations) in some way will damage the financial and / or commercial success of the club. This is as unpalatable as finding another club, so we end up in stalemate.

Stalemate is also where Jaimie ends up in most of his 'comment wars' following his posts. Sometimes we just have to accept that we're not going to agree. While all the trying to 'grind each other down' to accept another point of view simply serves to further damage the unity of the club as a whole.

Let's get personal. Last week I smiled at my girlfriend (an Everton fan by the way) and she didn't like it so a short argument took place. Obvioulsy there is a bit more to it than that but you'll be bored. Anyway I went to play squash while she stewed at home. I came home to a lady fixed in her belief that she deserved an apology. It wasn't forthcoming. I sent out a warning shot that 'we're not just going to agree on this so we should just forget about it'. Not good enough. So she shouted, I shouted, she called me several names not befitting her 'lady' title, I threw some things, broke some things and then she ended up in tears. Five minutes of silence were followed by me 'breaking the ice' and we agreed that we weren't going to agree (like I said at the start). Life is like that sometimes. You just have to get on with things accepting that damage can be avoided if you 'agree to disagree'.

Back to the football and I may be about to offer a simplistic view but while other clubs are limited to arguing over who they should buy, yesterday's result and the referee's mistakes we're collectively adding major arguments about our ownership and the financial structuring of the club. To our sponsors and prospective commercial partners it must appear like their is dis-harmony throughout every level of our football club. Not appealing is it?

I will say again that H&G's public outbursts played out in the media were stupid. However, they appear to have learnt and are at least displaying some sort of harmony for the world. The fans are not.

In relation to the club itself there is a significant weakness which exacerbates the problems. They do not, in my opinion, communicate effectively with the fans about their intentions or plans. They shouldn't need to justify their actions or endanger any competitive advantage they are looking for. However the amount of misinformation could, in my opinion, be reduced if we knew the high level strategies of the company direct from the club. Fans need to know 'from the horses mouth' that our debts can be managed and that the club is progressing towards the global football powerhouse it should be. Pre H&G our accounts and business overview were available from the club website. They are not anymore. They can be downloaded from companies house but why do we have to go looking for them and how many people know that? Little things like this promote the idea of a club trying to hide something.

One of the questions I asked myself as I was posting responses to my last blog entry was 'why am I having to justify our debts?' I didn't have all of the information required and was making judgements which were weakened because of this.

So, my opinions for you to shout at this time....

• Should the fans have an opportunity to hold the football clubs owners to account? Yes, we do hold the ultimate power over the club and company as we are their consumers. LFC need to recognise this and work with SoS - I have noted that Christian Purslow has met with SoS and intends to do so again.
• Is the current situation damaging our club? Yes, disharmony within the fanbase is always going to cause questions to be asked. Whether the future commercial success of our club will be hampered is still to be determined. I am confident it is not helping our prospects though.
• Could LFC communicate with us better? Yes, I believe they can. We don't need to know everything. But it strikes me that a lot of the speculation and misinformation could be dealt with if the club opened up a bit more. In the same way that Rafa is the focal point for the team Christian Purslow should push himself forward as the focal point for the company. He appears to have the support of most LFC fans.
• Should everyone have the opportunity to have their say and put their opinions out there? Yes, of course - we do live in a democratic country.
• Are the constant 'comment wars', speculation and media intensity doing us any good? No, we're not getting anywhere. We're having the same conversation over and over again. Go and look at Jaimie's posts in relation to H&G. In some cases they are as near to being repeated verbatim as you can get!

What would I suggest? Well I think the fans need to come together as one and agree that we are going to have 12 months of 'peace time'. During the next 12 months we come together in unity behind our great football club. God knows after yesterday's result we need it!

That is not to say we forget about things. But consider this. We agree 12 months of harmony throughout the club. In 12 months' time if the debt situation has worsened without clear justification from the club, or, other detrimental things have happened SoS or whoever else will have gained the moral high ground. They will then be in a much stronger position to convince a larger number of fans, thus having a larger influence over the club. Looking through posts on many LFC sites and forums there is evidence of a softening towards H&G and a hardening towards SoS. I could be wrong about it but on some of the posts I see I believe a wind of change is underway.

For clarity, my position -

• I don't care who owns our club.
• I care very much who runs it and that it is run well with an overall target of turning LFC into a 'global football powerhouse'.
• I am pro Rafa and believe if he can be given the tools he needs he is the right man
• I am realistic that without equity investment we need to borrow money to grow and achieve our targets. This is for the good of the club longer term.
• I believe our debts (as per my last post) are not as bad as the other 'top 4'clubs.
• I believe the press have a tendency to pick up on LFC stories. Why shouldn't they? We are a globally recognised football club, the most successful football club in history. We're going to be a target. While there isn't general unity at every level of the organisation, including the fans, we'll keep feeding them stories.

Finally and critically I believe we should have 12 months of 'peace time'. No demonstrations, quiet on the forum front, no shouting at our owners when they appear. In 12 months things will have improved or have worsened. Either way things will have 'crinkled out' and we the fans won't have damaged our club's future prospects.