Now I understand the brevity of Twitter but there was no balance. I am NOT sticking up for H&G but arguments like this in my mind are quickly dis-regarded as they have no balance.
- The pre-tax profit last year of LFC was £10m. While the fans don't want debts that would mean that we couldn't have bought anyone for £45m. So we had £10m available for a player purchase not £45m. But hold on, this is a 2 year period. We lost £22m the year before so if we don't want debts we'll now need to sell someone.
- Our debts (as I have now stated numerous times) are dwarfed by our nearest competitors. In the same period that LFC paid £46.5m in interest, MUFC paid £89.5m and AFC £65m. Only CFC are immune as they are bankrolled by and reliant upon Abramovich.
Balance an argument. I like to think my recent postings if nothing else have been balanced!
By the way what is it that people want? Plenty of new players, indeed plenty of new £20m+ players, commercial success, new stadium etc. but no debts please, we don't want debts. So really you want Abramovich. You want the club to be entirely reliant upon one person and if that person fails our club disappears? No? You want the fans to own the club. A noble idea but once the first flush of funding is gone what are you doing? Going back cap in hand every time for more money to invest?Surely you won't put the club in debt.
I'm sorry this is a rant! But it was avoidable by a balanced argument in the first place. Statements with balance have power, without, I'm afraid they look agenda driven.
7 comments:
Are you for real? Why is it people try and justify the debt by pointing to Utds debt, first off there is no relation at all due to the fact that they already have the commercial revenue streams in place along with their 76,000 seater stadium!!!
We have the sum total of nothing to show for our debt except a couple of big money signings (and I mean a couple) and our custodians now have an asset paid for by the fans. NO ONE would be bothered if we were in debt through financing the stadium, that would be a sensible practice. The problem people have is the debt to finance the owners purchase, of which they have put nothing in except some guarantees, has now meant we cannot now afford to even finance the stadium anyway.
Oh and if you somehow hadn't noticed the task of the owners being ordered to pay down our current debt has now crippled our transfer budget as witnessed in the summer and soon to be witnessed again in January when we have to offload players to give our best players wage rises in line with the position they hold at the top level(Reina).
You have missed the point on the fans problem with the debt by an epic margin.
Yes, I am certainly for real and with all due respect I think you missed the point.
I am not justifying the debt or sticking up for H&G, hence "I am NOT sticking up for H&G".
What I am asking for is that people give a balanced point of view and not just the bit that gets people on side.
Out of interest are you saying that MUFC's stadium extensions cost £800m and AFC's stadium cost over £600m? Have the plans for CFC costs nearly £1bn? Our stadium was to cost between £250 and £300m. This is expected to be reduced in the current climate. Our current debts + £300m would still leave us with the lowest debts of the top four.
I'm not doing a long repost here I strongly suggest you go back and read my blame game part one and get a balanced viewpoint and the actual position.
You keep trotting out this 'balanced view' line every 5 minutes and to be honest its not a balanced view, its YOUR view and only your view. It doesnt matter how many times you continue to talk about how our debts are lower then the others because nobody cares about the other teams, as Ive said it has no relevance at all to Liverpool football club, the purchase debt we have been lumbered with plus the stadium debt would cripple us seens that after being ordered to pay down the purchase debt has already it has wiped out any pitiful transfer budgets we might have had. Ive read somewhere that you believe Hicks receiveing $500 million could be good for Lfc, again sorry if you believe that then there really is no hope. If you are of the belief that parasite would put any of this money (oh thats after he has covered the loan outstanding for his purchase of the team, which swallows most of it) then you are kidding yourself, why dont you look up what promises he made to corinthians and what he did to that club as part of your 'fair balanced view' ?
Well in fairness it's not only my view. I think you would be surprised how many share my view. Not the majority, who I suspect don't really care one way or the other. However our views are quite obviously diametrically opposed at this moment in time. Hopefully at some stage all of this will be sorted and we can all get back to writing about football. Well not me maybe, this grabs my attention as I work and study in business and am an LFC fan, I'll stick to talking about football and writing about business.
I have also stated that with evidence I am quite happy to change my opinion. I am not closing myself off to one conclusion.
You may have me mixed up with someone else. My comment re: Hicks $500m was "3. Both the owners have recently sold other major assets. Hicks has also said our star players won't be sold. Now two things with that. I have noticed he stopped short of saying no players will be sold and we can't all be up in arms if, say, Mascherano leaves in the summer because he wants to." I don't think I said any of Hick's money would come to LFC. Although, I have posted so much about this if I have made reference to it I apologise.
I know this is an emotive issue for a lot of people and I can see why it is. However, as I have pointed out anyone's options are limited if H&G decide to dig their heels in!
Well the evidence of his (Hicks) last venture into football shows what he is capable of in bankrupting a massive club like Corinthians and sending them into the second division. Oh this was after promising their fans a new stadium aswell by the way.
Gillet has received a massive amount also recently but you wont see him put a penny in either because he has outstanding debts to pay.
''Tom Hicks is reportedly close to a $500m windfall when he sells his baseball franchise. He has stated that this club and LFC are separate. But the man has money!''
The end part of this quote is what I was refering to earlier, because the man doesnt have money, the banks he owed it to have money but you pointing out he does intimates you think he might entertain the outlandish idea of him actually putting any of it into his 'asset'.
I honestly cant believe anoyone who calls themselves a 'Liverpool fan' would even remotely endorse the 2 chancers currently owning the club after the debt they have saddled us with to fund their purchase, especially after the summer we have just had with our non-existent transfer budget at a critical time when we could have pushed on for the league title this year, they were brought in to further the club and they have in a commercial sense, nobody doubts that despite what you write, but at what cost now? After an initial investment (in the form of loans to the club via Kop cayman) in the playing staff we are now being forced to sell before we can even extend contracts!! That is how desperate it is now, and you think that we could stay afloat with an extra £300 million (conservative estimation of stadium cost) on top?
By the way our 'record' sponsorship deal drops about £5 million if we fail to get into the Champions league, which is an all the more likely the prospect as our transfer budget diminishes.
As for your reference to the parent company with regards to the debt, why dont you have a look at what happened at Southampton and their parent company, it doesnt make a blind bit of difference, it the holding company suffers then we suffer.
Hi again! First of all I most certainly am a 'Liverpool Fan' and have been all my life. To infer otherwise, because I may have a different point of view, is unfair. I'm not endorsing the owners at all. In fact in my post about the owners I stated that I remain neutral. The fact that I don't hate H&G or support the movement to get them out makes me no less of a supporter.
I believe that unless someone like Abramovich comes in we are going to end up in the same situation.
I haven't looked at the Corinthians situation but will do.
I have also already commented on the Southampton situation, which was different to ours, according to my research.
I said I just cant see how anyone can endorse them, which I'm sorry but you are, whether you like it or not you are trying to justify or explain away the debt which they have loaded onto us to fund their payment for us. This is now making a direct impact on the first team, remember the quote about buying whoever Rafa wanted (the infamous snoggydoogy), well I hardly think Rafa wanted to have a £0 next to his transfer budget this summer did he?
The reason why Utds fans have all but forgot about the resistance against there takeover is because the manager was backed to the hilt and continues to be, this is because they already have everything in place to be able to cope with their massive debt, we dont, so comparisons to debt ratios and figures are pointless.
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